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Re: (erielack) Personal rights, revisited

  Right on, Rich - during WW2, in occupied Europe, the Gestapo had an 
operating system called 'NACHT UND NEBEL' - literally 'NIGHT AND FOG'. The 
French or Poles, or Belgians or anyone who had offended the HERRENVOLK 
(master race) would disappear into the darkness. Most of their neighbors 
would just keep quiet but KNOW that they'd better not say anything. I'm 
sorry to see some folks on this list just want to keep their heads in the 
sand. It's OUR RIGHTS we're talking about here.
   For now, it's just some 'Keystone Kop'  giving us a rough time for the 
power trip, but if we let it go, what'll be next. SCARY.
Regards
Walt Smith

>From: Rich Young <ryoungceo_@_yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Rich Young <ryoungceo_@_yahoo.com>
>To: Steven Kay <s.kay4_@_verizon.net>,        The Erie Lackawanna Mailing 
>List <erielack_@_lists.elhts.org>
>Subject: Re: (erielack) Personal rights, revisited
>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:23:08 -0700 (PDT)
>
>       I completely agree with your assesment of danger
>in and aroung railroad property and equipment. And as
>always, tresspassing is always tresspassing! In new
>rule books for most railroads it is stated to report
>all suspicious activity up and including photography
>of the railroad infrastructure.
>
>But seriously here.
>
> > Paul made himself a target by staying in one place
> > too long (even if on public property). No doubt
>someone (not necessarily a railroad employee) called
>the local police. Their overzealous response was
>unwarranted but understandable in light of 911.
>
>MADE HIMSELF A TARGET and UNDERSTANDABLE !!!
>
>I don't feel he did anything to anyone and I absolutly
>don't find it understandable. The Federal Government
>has sold people and Law Enforcement on something that
>does not exist to achieve their agenda. Mean while
>real targets of higher potential danger are simply
>left exposed.
> >
> > Paul, I think, acted appropriately, was polite and
> > responsive to questions.
> > He will live to shoot those pictures again.
>
>I also have acted with the utmost courtesy and respect
>to the officers I have encountered. and 6 out of the 8
>times I have been appoached out on the railroad it was
>very congenial and pleasant but i still had to
>produced Identification which was ultimately reported
>to the TSA.  Once was officer was outright out of
>control and the other was a local not listening to
>reason wanting to arrest me on railroad property of
>which he had A. no jurisdiction and B. unwilling to
>call someone who did. It was only me going against his
>orders and calling in the real railroad police to
>intervine.
>
>My phylosophy is be very respectful but hold your
>ground let them make the decissions that will affect
>them and thier situation.
>
>Though I
> > am not a lawyer, I
> > would doubt there would be any recourse through the
> > courts.
>
>No there isn't because Paul submitted and complied
>willingly.
>  Police can
> > request identity and ask questions in almost any
> > situation.
>
>Yes they can and yes you do, but anthing more than
>that is wrong and a violation of rights.
>
>
>  If Paul erased
> > the pictures from his camera he did so "voluntarily"
> > and in doing so kept
> > the confrontation from escalating. Good move, in my
> > opinion.
>
>Wrong in mine, you let him request possesion of your
>camera you let him erase the picture and now you have
>civil rights violation. If he requests you to turn
>over your camera you say no. If he wants to arest you
>and take your camera and erase it's contents let him.
>Now you have something to work with. And you do it
>politely giving them no ammunition of resisting
>anything but things that are unacceptable. But you do
>it nicely!
>
>
> >
> > His name will, most likely, appear in the police
> > report made out by the
> > officer and should he be approached by the police in
> > the future they will
> > have his name as an enthusiastic railfan.
>
>No, his name is now logged with the FBI and The Dept
>of Homeland Stupidity. Two more times and he will get
>a call from the FBI or DoHS and if happening quickly
>they visit you in person. Right now they are runnig
>his backround check and financials.
>
> >
> > The times have changed. Incidents like this will
> > continue. Railfans can
> > press the issue of their freedom to take pictures of
> > trains but be ready for
> > the time, expense, and inconvenience that path may
> > precipitate.
> >
> > We all have choices. I would choose them wisely.
>
>Yes we do have choices, to sit quietly while we give
>up our rights a litle at a time till there are none
>left or speak up and out about something that is
>wrong. Would you speak out when they show up at your
>door wanting to confiscate your railroad books and
>photographs by that time it is to late.
>
>My infuriation is when an Officeer showed up at MY
>building and MY place of business demanding to
>interveiw me, with a file that had MY financial
>records and Medical records in it and I have no rights
>to ask why he has that information. This is the only
>time I have ever been out right rude , obstinant and
>down right mean to an officer and I expressly told him
>what I thought of him his department he works for his
>boss and I think his mother too. I would like to hear
>your response after this happens to you or rather your
>your change in response. I don't mean to be
>disrespectful to you Steve nr am I advocating lookinh
>for trouble but I have a very deep seated difference
>in opinion on this one.
>
>I liken this subject of civil rights to the same
>republican phylosophy on abortion (not to debate that
>subject either way), whch is a planned method to erode
>and whittle away at them untill there is nothing left.
>Every year we give up more and more individuality and
>personal freedoms and privacy. My question is at what
>point does an average guy who pays his taxes, owns a
>business , employs fourteen people and their
>employment taxes and property taxes for a business and
>home and all the rest finally stand up and say this is
>enough. Is it when they have come in the night and
>taken everything?
>
>
>Rich Young
>
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