As Paul says, the LV Sayre to binghamton trains were most interesting. When we railfans hung around "QD" by the old Erie depot in Binghamton on Sunday mornings, if nothing else was moving you could count on the LV train arriving around noon. Orginally the D&H runs termianted at Owego where cars were interchanged with the LV. Some time in the 1930's an arrangement was worked out with the unions to allow D&H crews to run all the way to Sayre and the LV crews to continue on to Binghamton, thus eleimianting Owego as the interchange point. For years the LV made a day time run from Sayre to Binghamton and back while the D&H made a trip to Sayre and return at night. In the memories of local railfans what stood out was that for years the LV ran Alco PA's on these trains. Since it was a short run almost anything available was put on these trains, incuding newly shooped power that was sent out for a break in. In steam days power was always a 4-6-2. Probably the most unsual lashup I recall was four of the LV SW switcher "pups"...sw this from the window of IBM in Owego where I was working and would have dearly loved to get a shot of it! JJ Young and I write an extensive article on the operation which was in the very first issue of "RAILFAN" as I recall. Last I knew Jim Lathrop, engineer for many years on the LV train was still alive and well in Sayre. Chuck Yungkurth Boulder CO - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Brezicki" <doctorpb_@_bellsouth.net> To: "EL Mailing List" <erielack_@_lists.railfan.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:35 AM Subject: LV-D&H Trains; was: RE: (erielack) As long as we're asking about track layouts..... > This operation was intriguing for the reasons Mike mentions, plus the fact > that interesting power often appeared, most notably the D&H Baldwin > Sharknose units. Adding insult to injury for the EL (whose predecessor > Erie evidently came out on the bottom of this deal), there's a photo in LV > in Color-3 showing EL SDP45 3647 hauling NWB-4 on LV rails near Smithboro; > the caption says May, 1973, which is post-Dereco! LV used Alcos primarily. > By EL years the interchange was down to a pair of trains, FO-2/OF-1. > O=Oneonta on D&H, not sure about the "F", perhaps N Falls or the symbol > for Manchester NY, which was an active yard until 1967. In 1972 the > symbols were changed to NWB-4 and BNW-3 (B&M-N&W). The operation is one > reason why I'm modeling Bingo-Owego; I get to run trains of LV, one of my > favorite RR's. > > Paul B > > From: Michael Connor <mjconnor_rr_@_hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: (erielack) As long as we're asking about track layouts..... > > Bob > The single-track Lehigh Valley went under the double-track Erie (and, > further southwest, the DL&W) on its Sayre-Owego-Freeville-Auburn, etc. > line. It was Bridge (JC) 249.88, a double-track Thru Plate Girder 59' 0" > in length. The LV and Erie Center Lines were skewed the Erie being > generally E-W and the LV running from SW to NE. > The Sayre-Owego segment was built in 1870 as part of the Southern > Central Railroad's Sayre-North Fair Haven (a coal transfer location on > Lake Ontario) line. The first through trains operated on 3 January 1871 > (though only to Auburn as the final work to NFH and the dock was not > completed until 16 May 1872. This gave the LV (through its control of the > SC and others) a outlet for coal on Lake Ontario. Until the early part of > the 20th Century the line was a neighbor, and little else, to the Erie. > The changed c. 1906 IIRC when the D&H acquired Trackage Rights over the > Erie from Binghamton to Owego, 22.19 miles. As coal and other traffic > declined the portion between Owego and Sayre became relatively more > important, being used about 6 times daily IIRC in the mid-60's, twice by > EB and WB LV locals to Owego and north. The D&H and the LV had a joint > service between Sayre and Binghamton whereby a D&H crew operated a > Binghamton-Sayre turn while an LV crew operated a Sayre-Binghamton turn, > thereby accounting for 4 movements daily. I believe these trains carried > traffic in both directions. > What the Erie got from the D&H (or LV) for granting this strategic piece > of Trackage Rights eludes me at this time (I seem to recall it might have > involved the Erie getting access to the Moon Milling complex at Binghamton > but that might not be the "rest of the story") but it was a major factor > in the LV's competitive posture. The only saving grace, insofar as the > Erie (and the DL&W, which also suffered from having a third railroad at > Binghamton courting the D&H's traffic) was concerned was the the LV route > involved an intermediate handling at Sayre while the Erie and DL&W managed > to make D&H blocks from at least East Buffalo. > The LV Sayre-Owego line closely paralleled the Erie east of Barton > and the area looked like a triple-track railroad, albeit with the north > (LV) track being clearly of a lower standard. Sometime in the 1960's, I > understand, the LV had a derailment in this area, and fouled at least the > EL WB Main (the tracks were very close in this area). A brouhaha arose, I > was told, over the LV's very slow response so that the EL wrecker was > brought to the scene and set the fouling derailed cars on LV property. > Allegedly this kept the lawyers occupied for a while until cooler heads > prevailed. > Another anomaly was that the LV timetable direction between Sayre > and Owego (and beyond) was westward while the Erie/EL's was just the > reverse. For those of a contemplative nature this created a situation > where Erie and LV Westbound Trains would pass each other while going in > physically reverse directions. > The LV between Sayre and Owego was abandoned effective 1 Apr 1976 > in the Conrail massacre. > Hope this answers your question and a little more. > MJC > > > > > The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List > http://EL-List.railfan.net/ > To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List http://EL-List.railfan.net/ To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html ------------------------------
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