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Re: LV-D&H Trains; was: RE: (erielack) As long as we're asking about track layouts.....

Okay, now I'm really lost.  How did the LV get from Owego to Bingo?  I can
find no record of LV tracks east of Owego.  I thought the rights agreement
was between Erie and D&H.  Was there an trackage rights agreement between
Erie-LV?  All three?  If so, what was it and if not how did this work?

Thanks, but puzzled,

Bob
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Brezicki" <doctorpb_@_bellsouth.net>
To: "EL Mailing List" <erielack_@_lists.railfan.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 6:35 AM
Subject: LV-D&H Trains; was: RE: (erielack) As long as we're asking about
track layouts.....


> This operation was intriguing for the reasons Mike mentions, plus the fact
> that interesting power often appeared, most notably the D&H Baldwin
> Sharknose units. Adding insult to injury for the EL (whose predecessor
Erie
> evidently came out on the bottom of this deal), there's a photo in LV in
> Color-3 showing EL SDP45 3647 hauling NWB-4 on LV rails near Smithboro;
the
> caption says May, 1973, which is post-Dereco! LV used Alcos primarily. By
EL
> years the interchange was down to a pair of trains, FO-2/OF-1. O=Oneonta
on
> D&H, not sure about the "F", perhaps N Falls or the symbol for Manchester
> NY, which was an active yard until 1967. In 1972 the symbols were changed
to
> NWB-4 and BNW-3 (B&M-N&W). The operation is one reason why I'm modeling
> Bingo-Owego; I get to run trains of LV, one of my favorite RR's.
>
> Paul B
>
> From: Michael Connor <mjconnor_rr_@_hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: (erielack) As long as we're asking about track layouts.....
>
> Bob
> The single-track Lehigh Valley went under the double-track Erie (and,
> further southwest, the DL&W) on its Sayre-Owego-Freeville-Auburn, etc.
line.
> It was Bridge (JC) 249.88, a double-track Thru Plate Girder 59' 0" in
> length.  The LV and Erie Center Lines were skewed the Erie being generally
> E-W and the LV running from SW to NE.
>         The Sayre-Owego segment was built in 1870 as part of the Southern
> Central Railroad's Sayre-North Fair Haven (a coal transfer location on
Lake
> Ontario) line.  The first through trains operated on 3 January 1871
(though
> only to Auburn as the final work to NFH and the dock was not completed
until
> 16 May 1872.  This gave the LV (through its control of the SC and others)
a
> outlet for coal on Lake Ontario.  Until the early part of the 20th Century
> the line was a neighbor, and little else, to the Erie.
>     The changed c. 1906 IIRC when the D&H acquired Trackage Rights over
the
> Erie from Binghamton to Owego, 22.19 miles.  As coal and other traffic
> declined the portion between Owego and Sayre became relatively more
> important, being used about 6 times daily IIRC in the mid-60's, twice by
EB
> and WB LV locals to Owego and north.  The D&H and the LV had a joint
service
> between Sayre and Binghamton whereby a D&H crew operated a
Binghamton-Sayre
> turn while an LV crew operated a Sayre-Binghamton turn, thereby accounting
> for 4 movements daily.  I believe these trains carried traffic in both
> directions.
> What the Erie got from the D&H (or LV) for granting this strategic piece
of
> Trackage Rights eludes me at this time (I seem to recall it might have
> involved the Erie getting access to the Moon Milling complex at Binghamton
> but that might not be the "rest of the story") but it was a major factor
in
> the LV's competitive posture.  The only saving grace, insofar as the Erie
> (and the DL&W, which also suffered from having a third railroad at
> Binghamton courting the D&H's traffic) was concerned was the the LV route
> involved an intermediate handling at Sayre while the Erie and DL&W managed
> to make D&H blocks from at least East Buffalo.
>          The LV Sayre-Owego line closely paralleled the Erie east of
Barton
> and the area looked like a triple-track railroad, albeit with the north
(LV)
> track being clearly of a lower standard.  Sometime in the 1960's, I
> understand, the LV had a derailment in this area, and fouled at least the
EL
> WB Main (the tracks were very close in this area).  A brouhaha arose, I
was
> told, over the LV's very slow response so that the EL wrecker was brought
to
> the scene and set the fouling derailed cars on LV property.  Allegedly
this
> kept the lawyers occupied for a while until cooler heads prevailed.
>           Another anomaly was that the LV timetable direction between
Sayre
> and Owego (and beyond) was westward while the Erie/EL's was just the
> reverse.  For those of a contemplative nature this created a situation
where
> Erie and LV Westbound Trains would pass each other while going in
physically
> reverse directions.
>          The LV between Sayre and Owego was abandoned effective 1 Apr 1976
> in the Conrail massacre.
>          Hope this answers your question and a little more.
> MJC
>
>
>
>
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