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RE: (erielack) Lackawanna Cutoff article-Daily Record

- --- On Mon, 6/2/08, Bill K. <pontiac_@_dreamscape.com> wrote:
> Amazing they can't fit the works into a Genesis carbody stretched
> like the FL9 was - if EMD could do it in one unit in 1960?

The FL9 was an F-unit with a built-in 600 hp electric switch engine.  It was not a full-power electric locomotive.  The third-rail mode did not require transformers, just switchgear to change the power source (traction power from the main generator or from the third rail shoes).  To get power from overhead catenary, the locomotive needs a big heavy transformer that takes nearly as much space and weighs as much as the 12-cylinder diesel.  Look at the GG1 - do you think there was much empty space under those shapely hoods?  At least the NJT dual-mode would use AC traction, avoiding the need for rectifiers!

There are no significant grades on the ex-New Haven route to Boston, for which they were built.  They only used the electric mode south of 125th Street, which is nearly gradeless.

Under Penn-Central and Metro-North, they worked on other routes that had grades, but similarly only used the electric mode south of 125th St.

Amtrak's FL9 units only used electric mode to enter the terminals (Grand Central or Penn Station) and to get through the East River tunnels to and from Sunnyside.  In the years before they were retired, Empire Service trains using FL9's were often towed by an E60 between Sunnyside and CP EMPIRE (38th Street on the West Side) since the electric mode often didn't work at all.

> Seems to me you just need traction motors that run off the third rail
> or overhead current, and a generator that can supply the same power. 
> Or some combination of series/parallel wiring to make it work.

You can't run 11.3 kv or 25 kv to the motors!

NJT wants a dual-mode that can run off AC, only using the diesel where there is no overhead (south end of the North Jersey Coast Line, Boonton Line between Montclair State and Denville, west end of the Raritan Valley Line, and the ex-Erie lines north of Secaucus.  The diesel would be off except where it's needed.  The FL9 NORMALLY operated in diesel mode, using electric only where required.  The Genesis II locomotives, with a much more powerful electric mode, still do this: their electrical equipment WILL overheat if operated at track speed for a sustained run.  They aren't built to run as full-time electric locomotives, but they don't have to.

The LIRR DE/DM30 dual-modes DO have full power in electric mode, but it takes two of them to handle a train over 5 cars.  They have had continuing problems (one was destroyed by a fire) and only a handful of trains operate through to Penn Station; they are not reliable enough for the LIRR to risk having a train stall in an East River tunnel during rush hour.

> Of course, you could put an electric on the rear and run in push mode,
> too.

That is NJT's plan for its gambler express trains to Atlantic City.  Leased Amtrak P40 (they have been at the Meadowlands Maintenance Center for nearly a year) at one end and ALP 46 at the other.

> Couple/uncouple at a station stop when you're standing still anyways.

It would make sense, but that is much harder than it once was, and requires people to be on the tracks.  Blue flag protection probably would prevent a train from operating on adjacent tracks, given close clearances at places like Newark and Trenton.  You don't want anyone getting hit by a train...  It's easier to tow the inoperative locomotive along for the ride.


      

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