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From: "Ron" rdukarm AT roadrunner DOT com
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:21:46 -0500
Subject: Re: (erielack) Unrealized Erie/DLW Line Improvements
"Electric_Traction_P_552_Erie_Rochester_1911.jpg" - image/jpeg, 1452x1036 (24bit)

Schuyler,

Here's some information I just came across last week on this subject. It was
included in a book entitled: ELECTRIC TRACTION FOR RAILWAY TRAINS by Edward
P. Burch, published 1911. Attached are pages discussing Erie's and DL&W's
projects.

The book states the the Erie's Rochester line was implemented for
"preventing competition and for economy of operation." The DL&W proposed
several projects as noted.

Ron Dukarm



> Jim, I've always been curious that there was not more electrification on
> either line.
>
> I know that the DL&W had a number of studies done of electrification on
> the main line west of East
> Stroudsburg and west of Scranton. These were done by Louis B Stillwell's
> office (who, BTW, was an
> electrical engineer, not a railroad or structural engineer, as most seem
> to think). I have some
> information on these, which I'd like to write up at some point.
>
> I also know that the ERIE seriously considered suburban electrification
> out of Jersey City. I was
> always thinking that was the rationale for the Rochester electrification,
> but it turns out that
> Rochester was done essentially after all the excitement regarding the New
> Jersey line's
> electrification studies had crashed and burned.
>
> SGL
>
>
>
>>
>> John Adams recently noted that the Erie had once considered rerouting the
>> Delaware Division via
> Honesdale, PA. I see
>> that this topic is discussed in the book Between the Ocean and the Lakes,
>> which can be Googled.
> If I'm reading this
>> correctly, in the mid-1860s the Erie wanted to build a line from
>> Honesdale up a small valley to
> Starucca Summit,
>> connecting to the already under-construction Jefferson RR from Lanesboro
>> to Carbondale. However,
> because the D&H
>> Canal was to fund this new line, they instead built it from Carbondale to
>> Honesdale, which became
> a D&H branch line.
>> Jay Gould later tried to revive the Honesdale-Starucca cut-off idea, but
>> got swept out before it
> could be started. (So
>> perhaps Jay wasn't 100% evil after all).
>>
>> That made me wonder if there has been any research tallying all of the
>> planned line revisions and
> improvements that
>> were considered but never built. I remember this List had previously
>> discussed an ambitious new
> line that the Erie had
>> considered in eastern Ohio, meant to go around the sawtooth grades west
>> of Akron. IIRC, the line
> would have diverged
>> from Meadville, ran through North Randall, and rejoined somewhere near
>> Galion.
>>
>> Closer to my home town, I once saw a an Erie NY Division map indicating a
>> proposed line that would
> have left the
>> Bergen County Line somewhere near Passaic Jct., ran slightly to the west
>> of Ridgewood, then turned
> west and crossed
>> over or under the Main Line near Allendale, then rejoined somewhere up
>> near Newburg Jct. I
> suppose this was meant to
>> avoid the e/b grade from Suffern to Ramsey, which did sometimes require
>> helpers in steam days (so
> I was told). And
>> then there's the Montclair tunnel and Caldwell Branch shortcut that never
>> was. And perhaps an
> extension of the
>> Greenwood Lake line to the Erie Main near Tuxedo. Wonder what else Erie
>> management had considered?
>>
>> On the DLW side - it seems that most of their pipedreams were turned into
>> reality. However, I
> thought I was told that
>> the DLW had once considered a tunnel under the Hudson to lower Manhattan.
>> Also, there was a
> suggestion in Carleton's
>> Erie Lackawanna Story that the DL had once considered building a cut-off
>> north of Scranton having
> a huge viaduct over
>> the Lackawanna River valley, as to keep through freights from dipping
>> down into the valley only to
> climb out again.
>>
>> Just wondered if there was anything published on this, or does anyone
>> know of any other proposals
> that the Erie or
>> DLW had considered? Probably wasn't much from the EL years, other than
>> the proposed bridge over
> the river east of
>> Binghamton, meant to join the Delaware Division with the DL&W somewhere
>> around Conklin -
> originally part of the
>> merger plan, per a 1960 article in Trains Mag.
>>
>> Jim Gerofsky
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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