Erie Lackawanna
Railfan.net 'erielack' E-Mail List Photo Archive

mar02bridge.jpg   Original: 227 by 273 pixels - Current: 227 by 273 - 100%
                          Try your mouse wheel too!

Previous Image - EL_SD-45-2_007.jpg mar02East.jpg - Next Image

From: "Douglas H DOT Crosby" dhc AT open DOT org
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 18:22:05 -0000
Subject: Layout & Prototype ,Salamance NY
"mar02bridge.jpg" - image/jpeg, 30147 bytes, 227x273 (24bit)


Update to original letter of July 4,2001
Paul and All,
[With your suggestion of Layout discussion, I'm resurrecting this,
updating it, and hope to attach some photo's before it gets sent.]
Photos:
1.Layout, looking East.note guest aisle, with clutter, on right. dual
track on top of 1/2 wall, mid level and small portion of helix visible
in distance
2. Layout, looking West.shows three levels and mockups of Salamanca
Station and roundhouse.
3. Layout, Kinzua Bridge mockup, and tri level tracks in 1/2wall.

PROTOTYPE PHOTOS
4. Salamanca Station
5. Salamanca Rail Museum (ex B&O, BR&P) Erie tracks in foreground.
6. Eastbound along Erie tracks
7. Erie double Truss Bridge


I've followed the postings, made input a couple of times, and asked for
help a couple of times. Finally composed a letter about my layout
answering someone else, and then decided to share with/ impose on (?)
all of you. I welcome comments from anyone. [Please - !!]
I grew up in Little Valley, NY - born in Salamanca in '49. Like so many
modelers, I guess that is sufficient to explain my choice of RR. My
earlier layout is an 8'x8' fold up that I take out to shows - free
lance, western Oregon setting. A few years ago I came across a copy of
"Men of Erie" in a local used books store, and decided to shift my
emphasis to my "Hometown" line. The original main line (Dunkirk Branch)
at Little Valley was right at the back of my Grandmother's property-
that house was "home". I model in HO, in part because of sentimental
attachment to an Athern steam loco I've had since my dad and I started
planning a layout about 1962. I like steam - so, a little research
quickly said I needed to be not later than 1952 on the Erie mainline! A
little earlier than my childhood memories, but acceptable. When I found
info about the '51 Centennial I settled on that year, so I can include a
real old timer and stay "prototype" real!
I'm not a "Rivet counter" - my philosophy runs more to " plausible
representation " and "recognizeable suggestion" --but I do enjoy the
research and finding out "what was" to reach that. I've read a lot of
the MR articles arguing point to point realism, but I also know from a
dozen years of involvement in train shows that people like to watch
trains run - the fine points of a switching move seem lost on most show
visitors. My tastes split the difference. I want to provide the realism
of operation and the "let the trains run" possibility. In planning my
Erie layout I was aware of the status of Salamanca as a (4 way) division
point, and considered some kind of double point to point X configuration
- but that dosent "let the trains run" very well! Then it occurred to
me that in reality (??) , while the individual RR section IS point to
point, the freight car traffic patterns aren't. For the Erie , its NYC
-Chicago p2p is matched North and South by the NYCentral and Pennsy -
thus Erie Loco's and equipment need to shuttle p2p, but the other cars
might well come thru Salamanca two or three time in the same direction
- without ever going "Back thru".
Of course a good staging yard takes care of that, but it wouldn't solve
the "let the trains run" half of the problem. I finally decided that I
wanted to put that division point X inside a circle, -- then the "Only
Problem" was working THAT into available space in some effective manner.
Available space in this case has turned out to be a 27', two door
Travel Trailer. (Still thinking train show potential.) I have come up
with a three level layout, with a walk thru viewing area- in one door,
out the other - with a 1/2 wall separating guests from the operating
side. Lower level is a loop built into that wall and expanded to a 10
track (max about 16') staging yard on the far side. The loop provides
switch lead and run around for the staging --NEWCAGO--. Trains leaving
the left (New York) end can also climb (again in the wall - exposed to
operators, hidden from guests) to the main level . Just before reaching
level track the train is in a scene visible only from outside, in the
front window of the trailer. This scene is done in fall foliage- to
present one of the reasons for visiting the area.
These trains come into view around a curved backdrop at "East
Salamanca", which I'm representing with the B&O's Salamanca Station.
(Currently the Salamanca Rail Museum) with the freight house, two short
freight spurs, and two short pass spurs. (That old Athern steamer
happened to be a B&O Pacific - guess where it goes!!) Our Westbound Erie
then is in the main section of the layout, main (center)level. Erie
Salamanca station, roundhouse, freight house, coal tower, etc -- all to
be modeled-- with "a bit" of selective compression of course. For
example , I plan to keep the 4 tubs of the tower, but with only 1 , not
2 tracks under each half. I have copies of plans of the yard with major
(outline) dimensions of structures to work from, and what photo's I've
found.
Leaving Salamanca our train can either go onto the Dunkirk Branch or
stay on the mainline . The mainline swings wide into a small separate
scene again visible only from outside (side window behind the door where
visitors will enter) . This scene is planned to be a winter scene.
Inside, its summer. Inside the curve of the mainline, and visible in the
trailer will be my representation of Little Valley . I've got Photo's of
Gray Milling , the station , Bordens Milk, Cattaraugus Cuttlery (All
rail service) and of course Grandma's house to try and work in here!
Both mainline and Dunkirk Branch then run(as if double track main)
across the top of the half wall right past the viewing aisle-gives about
8' of tangent double track--before they diverge at the exit door end of
the wall. Here both tracks pass thru the curved backdrop mentioned
earlier. That backdrop hides the main control panel and most of a
16'circumfrence helix from the viewing aisle . The mainline enters the
helix headed down, thus representing westbound traffic to Chicago,
arriving at the right hand, Cago end of the staging yard. This is , of
course also the path taken by trains Eastbound, from Chicago to NY. (The
main level Salamanca scene has both mainline tracks to handle
"Prototype" operations, with freight house, yard, and service tracks
approximating real track configurations.)
We've now got the Mainline , configured to represent point to point
operations in and out of Salamanca to and from "NewCago", and allow
continuous running. The lower level loop is 60' around (one scale mile
HO, Right?) with the lower level yard.
Trackwork on the main level is now complete, except for the turntable
and tracks in the roundhouse.
Back to our train, on the Dunkirk Branch-- This track goes thru the
backdrop entering the helix up-bound. Track climbs the helix to the top
level, about 8 inches below the ceiling of the trailer. Halfway up I'm
putting in an almost full turn passing siding, with the outer track
brought back thru the backdrop on a shelf. With a short spur, this will
become my suggestion of the helper at Dayton Hill. At the top of the
helix I have planned a reverse loop, all the way around the trailer,
passing over the entry doors. This is still at the benchwork stage.
Our Dunkirk Branch train comes back into view for visitors on a shelf
above "Dayton Hill" then continues above Salamanca - hope to suggest the
steel industry of Buffalo here somehow (Yes I know !!! Buffalo was B&SW
line, not Dunkirk Branch, and climbing Dunkirk Hill on the B&SW was in
the opposite direction -to, not from, Salamanca. Sorry. I claim modelers
license!! I couldn't make everything work .) Buffalo will give me a
destination for coal trains out of Salamanca, which of course originated
on the Bradford Division.
A couple of passing tracks at "Buffalo" should allow the full coal
trains to continue on the reversing loop around the trailer, or sending
traffic back down to Salamanca. (A spur to a turn table behind the
backdrop will allow turning of steam power for the return run)
Those full trains on the reversing loop will be behind a backdrop,
because they are sitting there staged for the last element of my "X in
a circle" idea. This half of the top level reversing loop, back to the
single track helix down - crosses over the trailer doors, thus above and
behind visitors who have come in . There is 8' between the doors, and
about 2' for each door. This will be my model of the Kinzua Bridge,
-signature structure for the Bradford Branch. (In HO that 12' is less
than 1/2 what I need to be "accurate", but should be enough to say " Big
Bridge" fairly well!!) Coming down the helix, using the mid-helix
siding to avoid the Dayton Hill scene, our full coal train will enter
Salamanca correctly, from East Salamanca, past the B&O Station.
Obviously, empty coal trains can travel the helix/reverse loop in the
opposite direction to complete the traffic pattern. And, since this is
all tied into the lower level staging, coal trains to New York or
Chicago can be made up at Salamanca and then "become" the train arriving
at Buffalo without going back thru Salamanca .
With a few other spur sidings to local industry I think I will have a
"reasonable representation" for the area and for operating potential. I
have Digitrax, and am working towards decoders in my motive power. I
belive the track plan, (even allowing for the tight main operating aisle
from one end of the trailer to the other) could keep 4 or 5 operators
busy. I have a duplicate sub panel for switching the lower level at the
back end of the trailer : 1 operator making up trains for mainline runs
there. 2nd op.- standing in the visitors aisle, running mainline . #3-
in main aisle working Salamanca #4 dispatch at main control panel
(inside helix) #5 local in and out of Salamanca, B&O, Dunkirk/Buffalo
-- though where to have that person could be a problem , if the
Salamanca yardman/NewCago yardman do some "brakeman" work #5 operator
could be in the visitor aisle also.
Alternately, at shows, and when alone, one person can run the layout.
I'm using Peco turnouts. I like the combination manual/ remote potential
at a more or less reasonable price. I can either " Work a local" walking
around, or run multiple trains to keep visitors entertained while
staying out of the scene.
Another part of my thinking involves educating train show visitors.
With the restricted viewing area (from being in the trailer) I
anticipate a waiting line (at least if I do a good job!) so I am
planning display panels to hang along the outside (no door side) of the
trailer with photo's, historical info, original Erie documents, etc --
to keep people busy in line.
=09
I've been collecting timetables, books, photo's etc. A couple of trips
home have involved trips to the Salamanca Rail Museum, photographing the
existing situation/stuuctures . As I said, most of the books have little
info about the area. I have been able to glean things like loco #'s from
some sources to help identify which equipment is appropriate to the
area/time (like the Baldwin 6 axle diesels) and the scheduled Passenger
trains are of course listed. What I don't know much about are things
like frequency of / consist of freights; locals and mainline,
worktrains, frequency/type of local setouts etc.
=09
This turned into a major letter - hope I haven'd imposed on you to
badly.
Doug
=09



mar02bridge.jpg

Click Here or on the corner X to close this window.


    All photos are the property of the original photographer unless otherwise noted and are to be used for personal viewing purposes only.

    The use of these photos on any website or other distribution media is strictly forbidden without the express consent of the image copyright holder.

    Linking directly to this page is permitted as long as "Railfan.net Erie Lackawanna Email List Photo Archive" is creditted on the linking page.