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From: Jay Wanczyk the_plainsman AT yahoo DOT com
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:32:13 -0700
Subject: Re: (erielack) Railworks 12 window Stillwell cars
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Hello Blake T., and List,

One would have to ask the owners of Railworks for the answer as to why they produced a 12 arch window section Stillwell coach model.

Though I'm sure some will argue the following with me today, some of the reasonings behind production of that fantasy model, as well as the fantasy 11 arched window section Stillwell coach with the plated over letter board produced earlier by North West Short Line, all of that both models resulted from ONE poorly worded sentence in an article with accompanying plans published in the late 1960s in Railroad Model Craftsmen.

That sentence alluded to 11 section window CARS being modified with a smooth letter board, when it should've made it more clear that the DESIGN was modified later for the 12 window section cars. I met Raul Martin at an NMRA Convention in Philadelphia about 10 or so years ago and he laughed when I brought up the subject, telling me 11 section Stillwell cars were in instant sellout. However he noted that the plated over 11 window version were a virtual drug on the market as knowledgeable prototype Erie/NYS&W modelers were cool to them, only purchasing them as stand-ins for the later 12 section Stillwell's, much as many early modelers accepted the shortened Athearn RDC's until correct full length models scale models were available.

A bit more on the possibilities of all 12 section arched window Stillwell coach. Stillwells design concept was modular in it's approach. Stillwell was a century ahead of other electrical and design engineers for he always believed in the concept of energy conservation and excess weight being the enemy. He also believed that railway cars with heavy Center beams and underframes were not the most efficient design and were more subject to telescoping than a passenger car built as a unit, today termed monocoque construction.

His work with George Gibbs on prototypes for the original IRT subway steel cars, led to his firm's design of the Hudson Tubes 'black car's' which first used his modular car builder concept. This concept was used a few years later in the construction of the larger railroad sized, multiple unit Stillwell cars used on the New York Westchester and Boston. The attached drawing which appeared in several publications of the day, shows the individual pressed steel panels that were riveted together to form the sides.

Each panel did not include one complete window arch section, but actually extended from mid arch to mid arch, as it was explained back then each panel being in a fact a large flat I-beam, riveted together at the top of the arch and bottom of the car in as many sections as required. The earliest 12's window section Stillwells and perhaps all of them were built to the same method, (excluding the Stillwell roofed gas electrics, which had conventional happy frame design). Conceivably, one could strip off the riveted letter board of a 12 window section Stillwell and end up with a similar arched window panel – at least initially. But perhaps not for the later 12 window section cars as the arch opening underneath may have been a lemonade it. I don't not know to say for sure.

So there may be some truth to the fact that Erie's designers wanted a smooth letter board to enable Erie to be properly lettered - however the principal reason was likely that by the time the 12 window section Stillwell coaches were constructed, arched windows were considered a passé design. Just as today's modern Lexus, Audi or Cadillac turned from round headlights, to LEDs. many other railroads were plating over much older cars. But no photographic evidence that the Erie ever did so with 11 window section Stillwells.

In spending years of searching every Stillwell coach photograph I could lay hands on, I have never seen at 11 window coach letter board plated over, nor have I ever seen a 12 window coach with arched windows in original prototype production.

As an interesting aside, Stillwells design concepts were used in the construction of the original BMT standards, however BMT reportedly did not wish to pay patent fees for pressed steel side sections as used by the Hudson tubes and NYW&B, so those side sections were assembled a bit differently. Since the Erie intended to electrify it suburban North Jersey operations, as was there custom, they turned to the most progressive engineer at the time, Stillwell and his firm for commuter car design. It has been noted in several articles that the original Stillwells delivered to the Erie incorporated all of the mounting brackets and provisions for conversion to electrical MU operation. Generations later, NJ DOT's Comet 1 cars were similarly designed to provide conversion to electric MU operation went electrification of the greenwood Lake – Booton line as far as Mountain View was contemplated.

At any rate, I should probably dust off those notes for a comprehensive Stillwell article or booklet I was going to write years ago. By the way, anyone that can conclusively prove that the Erie plated over a number of 11 section arched window section Stillwell letterboard csrs or acquired any 12 arched window section Stillwell coaches will receive from me one of the still excellent one piece cast resin Stillwell 11 section arched window coach kits originally produced by Murray Sincoff of Fairlawn in the mid-1980s, and which I sold many of later, after acquiring the remainders following his untimely passing.

I'm interested in hearing many of your comments.

W.Jay W

PS – apologize for any typos – I use voice recognition software for most of my emails and sometimes spoken words do not translate to text as well as we'd like!








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