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From: "Daniel G DOT McFadden" dan DOT mcfadden AT gmail DOT com
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:01:49 -0400
Subject: RE: (erielack) E8s on the Passenger trains
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Bob & Paul & List,

Unfortunately, I seem to not have a shot of F3 B unit spliced between two
E8's. I do have two (box camera quality) shots of a GP-7 between two E8's
and even these occurrences are obviously not for consideration of power, but
probably to move a unit to Scranton for servicing. But I attach them here in
case anyone is interested.

One shot shows DL&W EL Train Number 3 on 8/8/1960 with the 818+967+814 and
10 cars in Madison.

The second shot has EL Train Number 49 on 3/25/1961 with the 817+1407+818
and 7 cars at Dover.

As Bob mentioned, power sets of 3 E8's or two E8's and a PA became pretty
common in EL days. This really started when the schedules were combined and
the Erie side was left with the Binghamton connection trains. I believe the
longest passenger train I ever saw on the DL side was EL Number 2 on April
30, 1961 which was the first day with the reconfigured service. This train
had 18 cars with F3's 8451 and 8454 plus E8 826 and PA 861. This train had
two engine crews, one in the lead F3 and another in the E8. In truth, this
train was a sad sight for anyone used to seeing the Phoebe Snow.

Power wise on through line passenger service, most anything you can
reasonably imagine probably happened at some point. Unusual combos I saw
include E8 + F3 B, 4 E8's, an A-B-B-A set of F3's (on a Niagara Falls
special), and so on.

The F3's did not vanish in passenger service with the merger. Train Number
40 regularly had an A-B-A set of F3's and they also continued in Boonton
Line commuter service for some time.

My train watching in those days was pretty much confined to the DL side so
these comments do not apply at all to the Erie side.

Dan McFadden



-----Original Message-----
From: Dlw1el2 AT aol DOT com [mailto:Dlw1el2@aol DOT com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:49 PM
To: erielack@lists.railfan.net
Subject: Re: (erielack) E8s on the Passenger trains


Dan
Neat info. I know the Lackawanna started splicing in a B unit now and
then in later years, and I think this got carried through into the ELs
early
years too. Most photo's imply that a third E or PA was added later on
in the mid 1960s when train size dictated. With the reduction in trains
additional passenger B units were available. In later years many Lackawanna

passenger F3s both As and Bs could be found in freight service.

13 cars was the criteria that the Lackawanna used when determining if two
E8s could start a train out of Cresco, which was the toughest pull they had
to make from a station stop. Your notes of 14 and 15 cars would convey
that an additional unit was needed to keep schedule over 13.

Bob Bahrs

In a message dated 5/7/2012 4:18:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dan.mcfadden@gmail.com writes:

In connection with E8's vs. F3's on passenger runs, I saw on numerous
occasions an F3 B unit spliced between the usual pair of E8's on DL&W
passenger trains when the consist had 14 or more cars.

Here are some examples, all for train #5, the Twilight out of Hoboken
around
4:45 PM:

July 8, 1960: 817-803B-814 with 14 cars
July 15, 1960: 814-801B-815 with 14 cars
July 22, 1960: 814-803B-815 with 14 cars
July 29, 2960: 814-805B-815 with 15 cars

These notes come from train watching in either Madison or Denville.

Dan McFadden



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