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From: "Jim Guthrie" jguthrie AT pipeline DOT com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:30:04 -0400
Subject: Re: (erielack) Stillwells/H&M
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>They are tubes made up of iron ring segments lined with
>concrete.

I believe the first segment of the H&M tunnel was brick
lined.

In any case, when you head **to** Hoboken from 33rd -- note
the "S Curve" under the river. The tunnel diggers from east
and west "missed" each other by eight feet -- hence the
north tube is not a straight line as one might expect.

In any case, I see another note doubting my veracity -- this
time of my comment regarding the proposed tracks on the
lower level of the GWB.


There were plans for transit, trolleys and commuter rail --
but also for freight for the steam railroads.
Here' are two quick scans from Volume 1 of the Regional Plan
of NY -- but keep in mind there were lots of other plans for
this starting at least as far back as Wilgus around 1921.

To be sure, one might claim "the steam railroads never
planned" and equally sure, they all pretty much fought the
Port of Authority when it came to attempting to construct
any of the cross harbor additions. Railfans love to
excoriate the PA for not building all this track (let alone
the tunnel under the harbor), but that's another great
example of railfan "received wisdom."

I suggest Doig's "Empire on the Hudson" for a good, readable
contemporary history of the PA. Of course, the classic on
the subject of rail is Condit's 2-volume "Port of New York."

It should also be noted that Walter Kidde took part in some
of this planning -- and the civic-minded Kidde actually
implemented a piece of the suburban rail part with those ACF
Motorailers. And the prospects for Lines 6 and Lines 13 of
the Port authority plan come up from time to time in the
wrangling over the Erie Terminals RR between the Erie and
Susquehanna and Susquehanna and NY Central all through the
NYS&W bankruptcy papers..

Cheers,
Jim Guthrie
ELHS #1296.





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