Re: (erielack) Inaccuracies in models....IHC K5A

[Hhaines_@_aol.com]

In a message dated 5/1/01 8:45:52 PM MST, RSmollin_@_aol.com writes:

<<  the questions 
 are: How accurate are these tenders and how hard would a conversion be? >>

Well Ray,

I thought about this kit for a Consolidation, and I'm still thinking.  If you 
are a member, I would recommend contacting the Erie steam information and the 
modeling person in the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society.  Also, from what I 
could find, the K-5 Pacifics did not use Vanderbilt tenders.  

Meanwhile, this is my two cents.  I have one of these Vanderbilt tenders on a 
(MDC Roundhouse) Erie Class E-4 Atlantic (4-4-2) that I am working on to 
change from oil to a coal hopper.  It appears Roundhouse used a Harriman-type 
Southern Pacific oil-fired prototype Vanderbilt tender for the model.  Erie 
used Harriman designs at one point in its history, so this is not a bad place 
to start.  

Proportionally, the MDC tender model looks to be about the 9,000 gallon-16 
ton or slightly small capacity based on how much tank is left on either side 
of the trailing truck.  The trucks in the kit are wrong for the Erie 
prototype, but MDC has other sideframes that would be closer In this case, I 
am not a rivet counter.  

I wish I knew the best way to modify this existing model, but am checking 
other resources now for an old article on this very topic.

It seems to me that the oil bunker needs to be built up into a coal hopper.  
The model is of riveted construction, and many prototypes were also.  Foot 
boards may or may not appear on a locomotive tender.  I would suggest finding 
a picture and modeling from there.  After the coal bunker, the tender would 
need appropriate ladders, steps, and hand rails for the Erie versions. 

The information I can help you with is some of the classes that used 
Vanderbilt tenders.

In addition to the E-4s and some H21s, other classes that had Vanderbilt 
tenders included Erie Class K-1 Pacifics built in 1906-1908 with rectangular 
tenders that were changed between 1913 to 1920 for 6,900 gallon, 14-ton 
Vanderbilt tenders (Crist, ERIE MEMORIES, p104). 

In July 1917, Erie ordered 10 Class K-2A Pacifics delivered with 8,500 gallon 
and 14 ton Vanderbilt tenders five of which were changed in 1940s to small 
(16,500 gallon, 24 ton) rectangular Berkshire tenders. (The Erie Class K-2s 
had rectangular tenders, p105).  The Class K-3s apparently had Vanderbilt 
tenders most of the time.

Erie Class K-4 fast freight Pacifics were delivered with Vanderbilt Tenders.  
All K-4's had 4 wheel Vandy tenders, 8 locos had cast steel frame tenders 
with 16 ton coal capy. and 9000 water capacity.  Another 26 had built up 
frame Vandy tenders 14-ton  coal, 8,000 gallons of  water capacity. 10 had 
built up frame vandy tenders with the same capy's as the cast steel frame 
tenders.  Only one K-4B had a Vandy tender (#2749) cast steel frame 20 ton 
coal 9,000 water on 4 wheel trucks.  

N-1 Mikados (2-8-2s) were delivered with 9,000 gallon 16 ton Vanderbilt 
tenders that were modified to carry 20 tons of coal, Crist pg 89.  The N-2s 
were built to the URSA heavy Mikado design, and had URSA tenders.  The Erie 
Class N-3s were delivered with 9,000 gallon, 16-ton capacity Vanderbilt 
tenders that were swapped for old Berkshire (16,500 gallon, 24 ton) tenders 
(Carelton p37)

The oddest looking pairs were big Class R-1 and R-2 (2-10-2) Santa Fes with 
small Vandy tenders.

A good photo comparing the backs of Vanderbilt tenders included a 12 ton 8000 
gallon C-3 tender and 16-ton 9,000 gallon K-4 tender can be found in the 
middle of page 19, ERIE RAILROAD STORY by Carleton (and bottom of pages 86 
and 87--thank you Jim Davies--pg 105. and color can be found in Larry 
DeYoung's ERIE RAILROAD TRACKSIDE WITH ROBERT COLLINS p 27, 43, 68, and 72).  
You can see some difference--the MDC model is of a small to medium tender.

Also, doing this review, I found that the drivers on the K-4As built in 1923 
were changed to 75-inch diameter drivers in 1929 (Crist, p 132).  This means 
the Mantua K-4 model has the correct drivers for this class (K-4B). (I also 
learned the Class S Berkshires used 20,750 gallon 27 ton rectangular tenders, 
straight sides on the Baldwin S-3s but curved at the top on the Lima S-4s and 
additional 45 tenders.)

I'll let you know if I can find the article on the Vandy conversion from oil 
to coal--I recall seeing it awhile back. I know the ELHS Diamond covered 
tenders a while back.

H Haines
ELHS #1447

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